December 29, 2009

VS System Council Errata - Incorrect

In their year-end address to the community the council has suggested an errata. The full text explanation can be read below:

Our final topic of the day is Nick Fury, Col. Nicholas Fury (MVL-123). This card has been nominated for an errata because of a broken interaction that allows for consistent turn 3 wins (sometimes turn 2) in Silver and Golden Age. The combo uses the following cards:

Nick Fury, Col. Nicholas Fury
Haywire, Suicidal Lover
Mind Gem, Unique * Infinity Gem
Soul Gem, Unique * Infinity Gem
Ratcatcher, Otis Flannegan or Apokoliptian Zealots, Army
Any team-up
In ten test games, KardKrazy won on turn 3 eight times, turn 2 once, and turn 4 once. The trick is to put a Soul Gem on Nick Fury and a Mind Gem on Haywire, Then have Haywire stun himself repeatedly with Nick Fury’s effect, and bounce to hand repeatedly with Soul Gem’s effect. Ratcatcher burns your opponent to death throughout this process. In Silver Age, you simply need to replace Ratcatcher with Apokoliptian Zealots to gain infinite attack. This version is equally unstoppable since you can include a single copy of Blind-Sided in your deck (Mind Gem will be drawing up your whole deck).

The council has decided to change Nick Fury to the following:

Nick Fury, Col. Nicholas Fury
Marvel Knights
Exhaust X equipped MK characters you control >>> Stun target opposing character with cost less than X.

Chuck says: After Roy and Scott's comments, I had a really close look at this and they are indeed correct. The second line on Soul Gem reads “Whenever equipped character stuns a character with lesser cost, return that stunned character to its owner’s hand.”

In order to bounce Haywire back to your hand, he would have to be in combat with Nick Fury. Haywire is not being stunned by Nick, he is being stunned by Nick’s power, and there IS a difference. WIthout being in combat you can’t bounce Haywire back to hand, so there is no infinite loop.

Comment 2: According to rules lawyering this combo does actually work, but were I asked to rule on it I'd still say it doesn't work. My opinion and the truth seem to be in disagreement this time. I'm not going to bother adding the errata to the Legends FAQ...but should someone play a deck of this sort in one of my tournaments, I'll be extremely disappointed in them for being cheap. :P


Roy Madill, Rachelle Madill said...

i wouldn't think that combo would work anyway because Soul Gem only allows you to return the character to hand if it was stunned by the equipped character. Nick Fury isn't actually stunning Haywire is he? It's an effect outside of combat.

Scott said...

I'd have to agree with Roy on this one. It's an effect that's stunning Haywire, not the character equipped with Soul Gem.

Scott said...

Also, Nick's effect requires him (or any equipped MK character) to exhaust. I don't see the infinite combo here, since there's no way to ready Nick - or is there a piece of the combo I'm missing?

Obsidian3D said...

I've been trying to figure out how it works too, and still don't quite see it myself...

Roy Madill, Rachelle Madill said...

it would be infinite because it's during your recruit step, you're exhausting Haywire, stunning him... returning his equipment and him to hand... recruit again since both are zero cost... repeat. Fury's effects allows this because it's cost is exhaust X characters, stun less than cost so exhaust Haywire and stun him. It's still the stun from effect that doesn't make sense to me.

Obsidian3D said...

I posted my final thoughts on this on as appended comments to the actual post. The loop does work...but I still think it's lame. :P